WTA/SL Meeting Log Oct 14 2007

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This page is a log of the meeting of the Second Life chapter of the WTA on October 14, 2007:

  • from local chat:
  • [13:05] Morpheus Maximus: Hello everyone
  • [13:05] Peer Infinity: hi Morpheus :)
  • [13:06] Morpheus Maximus: is there any news?
  • [13:06] Valen Baxter: another thing I was thinking of. maybe a special "debate" section of the HQ when we get it running. A place to sit down and have a friendly arguement about the merits of various technologies or improvement "paths".
  • [13:07] Valen Baxter: cybernetics versus genetic engineering, wireless or plugs, etc.
  • [13:08] Peer Infinity: heh, I think people are already getting tired of me saying "we could use the Wiki for that".
  • [13:08] Morpheus Maximus: :)
  • [13:09] Valen Baxter: yeah. I think people prefer to use a 3-d medium, instead of staring at unadorned text. It's just more comfortable mentally.
  • [13:10] Morpheus Maximus: in the past it seemed they had people give presentations and have discussions afterwards
  • [13:10] Valen Baxter: I think that's the primary appeal of SL, actually. I know a lot of people who've abandoned AIM and Yahoo messenger to use this, because it feels more comfortable.
  • [13:10] Morpheus Maximus: yes
  • [13:10] Valen Baxter: Yes, thank you. I really need to type a little slower.
  • [13:11] Morpheus Maximus: has anyone had contact with OneUp yet?
  • [13:11] Jani Myriam: Hey everyone!
  • [13:11] Valen Baxter: hey jani.
  • [13:11] Jani Myriam: No contact with OneUp yet. BRB, need to chat with someone but will brb asap. Blargh!
  • [13:12] Morpheus Maximus: Hi Jani
  • [13:12] Peer Infinity: ok
  • [13:12] Morpheus Maximus: I'm also in IM's with others at the same time, so I might be slow sometimes with responding
  • [13:13] Valen Baxter: S'okay. We understand.
  • [13:14] Valen Baxter: I don't think any member of this group is unfamiliar with multitasking.
  • [13:14] Peer Infinity: heh
  • [13:14] Morpheus Maximus: :)
  • [13:15] Peer Infinity: should we at least let the other people in the WTA Project Phoenix group know that we're here?
  • [13:16] Valen Baxter: I suppose.
  • [13:16] Morpheus Maximus: yes I didnt know if that already happened, I just logged in
  • [13:16] Valen Baxter: Or just make an anouncement to the whole WTA group.
  • [13:17] Morpheus Maximus: yes in the group-chat for those who are online now
  • [13:19] Peer Infinity: heh, the only others who are online now are Terence McKenna and Viznet Beaumont


  • from SL-WTA Project Phoenix Group Chat:
  • [13:20] Peer Infinity: hi everyone. Valen, Morpheus and I are currently in the WTA skybox, if you want to join us
  • [13:21] Terence McKenna: Are you on uvvy? Can I get a teleport?
  • [13:22] Valen Baxter: no, we're still in the Pavonia skybox.
  • [13:22] Valen Baxter: for now.
  • [13:22] Terence McKenna: Thanks, appreciated.
  • [13:24] Terence McKenna: Are we expecting more participants today?
  • [13:24] Valen Baxter: I was hoping for more....
  • [13:25] Peer Infinity: I wasn't expecting any more to show up
  • [13:25] Terence McKenna: Online people are flaky.
  • [13:25] Jani Myriam: You might try the main WTA group to see if anyone online now is interested?
  • [13:26] Peer Infinity: did we tell the main group about the skybox yet?
  • [13:26] Valen Baxter: Yesterday, but only two or three people were online at the time, I think.
  • [13:27] Jani Myriam: Not sure but I don't think any of us can post group notices so anything put into WTA group chat will only be sent to whoever happens to be online at the time.
  • [13:27] Valen Baxter: we need an officer to post a full group notice.
  • [13:27] Peer Infinity: ok, so let's just send an invitation to whoever is online now
  • [13:28] Morpheus Maximus: it would be good to announce the next meeting (next week) as a notice on the WTA group I think
  • [13:28] Peer Infinity: I agree
  • [13:28] Terence McKenna: I'll send it to wta-talk, if you give me the details.
  • [13:28] Terence McKenna: extropy-chat and other places, as well.
  • [13:29] Morpheus Maximus: I don't have more details yet, but I understood we had to hear from OneUp first? (I dont know him)
  • [13:29] Morpheus Maximus: you can add this for now: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Pavonia/147/114/695
  • [13:30] Terence McKenna: I don't know him either. He was the principal of WTA SL activities?
  • [13:30] Peer Infinity: thanks for the SLURL, Morpheus
  • [13:30] Morpheus Maximus: I think so, but he was planning to step down I think
  • [13:30] Jani Myriam: Yup, I really want to make sure that what we end up doing is sanctioned by OneUp and anyone else from WTA who is interested in SL.
  • [13:31] Terence McKenna: I don't see how it can't be sanctioned. Any activity is good activity.
  • [13:31] Terence McKenna: SL is a wasteland, so far. Especially, as far as transhumanism is concerned.
  • [13:32] Morpheus Maximus: yes but special permissions are needed to post announcements on the WTA list and the website and for uvvy maybe
  • [13:32] Terence McKenna: IIRC somone recently estimated SL is the size of Manhattan, and the online population is what? 40 k?
  • [13:32] Valen Baxter: true, mostly. But there are some gems to be found if you dig deep enough.
  • [13:33] Jani Myriam: I think if we really want WTA-SL to rock we need to get RL peeps involved and that will take the connections we'll have through WTA itself.
  • [13:33] Terence McKenna: wta-talk is open to anyone. I guarantee you that Giulio will welcome WTA activities on uvvy.
  • [13:33] Jani Myriam: That's great news Terence!
  • [13:34] Terence McKenna: Hi Lucifer.
  • [13:35] Terence McKenna: Manoj must heed to his studies in RL.


  • from World Transhumanist Association Group Chat:


  • from local chat:
  • Introduction foyer.
  • Links section.
  • Debate rooms, for specific topics.
  • Central meeting area for broad discussions/interaction.
  • Cultural room (Bar? Dance floor? Concert Hall? Theatre?) Eliezer Tando in Alien Nation has been meaning to do something similar for that group, and I thought we could do the same. I think it's important to build a sense of community. We could theme it after, as usual, what we anticipate culture to look like at a given future time period. Maybe even do "theme nights."
  • Class rooms/university? Again, i'm cribbing off of Alien Nation (another group I belong to). They will soon start teaching scripting classes, but I thought we could go one step further. Ask the qualified members of our community to teach little workshops about different technology/science fields, field questions, etc.
  • [13:45] Peer Infinity: thanks
  • [13:46] Valen Baxter: no need to actually stay. When I say "list" I mean "written list".
  • [13:46] Peer Infinity: ok
  • [13:46] Terence McKenna: Okay, since I'm a friend of Giulio, and typically only am on uvvy, I hope to see you guys there. I don't think I will come to Pavonia very often.
  • [13:46] Terence McKenna: In case you need anything, and can't get hold of Giulio, I'm very happy to pass stuff on to him.
  • [13:46] Valen Baxter: My memory is swiss cheese, so there's no guarantee I'll remember something, so I try to get it written down as fast as possible.
  • [13:47] Morpheus Maximus: who contacts OneUp?
  • [13:47] Valen Baxter: can anyone contact him?
  • [13:47] Morpheus Maximus: I dont know him
  • [13:47] Terence McKenna: Me neither.
  • [13:47] Valen Baxter: same.
  • [13:48] Terence McKenna: What about we all meeting on uvvy next saturday or sunday, same time?
  • [13:48] Peer Infinity: I think Jani has been trying to contact OneUp, but I'm not sure
  • [13:48] Morpheus Maximus: yes very good. a notice on WTA group would be good
  • [13:48] Terence McKenna: I'll send this to wta-talk and extropy-chat. The time is 1:00 PM PDT?
  • [13:49] Terence McKenna: Saturday, or Sunday?
  • [13:49] Morpheus Maximus: okay, both possible for me
  • [13:49] Terence McKenna: How about Saturday, in case people in other time zones need a day to sleep off?
  • [13:49] Valen Baxter: I'd prefer sunday, saturday I have to work.
  • [13:49] Peer Infinity: I'll only have dialup internet next weekend, but I'll try to be there anyway
  • [13:50] Terence McKenna: Okay, Sunday is it, then.
  • [13:50] Valen Baxter: but whatever works. I can get a run-down from someone.
  • [13:50] Peer Infinity: I thought that last meeting, we decided to make Saturday the official day for the meetings
  • [13:50] Valen Baxter: ok. Saturday.
  • [13:51] Valen Baxter: I'll ask Peer for a copy of the minutes, or just a quick overview.
  • [13:51] Peer Infinity: actually, I'm going to post a log of all the meetings to the Wiki
  • [13:51] Terence McKenna: Okay, I'll put Saturday in the announcement then. See you there, next saturday, 1:00 PM PDT
  • [13:51] Valen Baxter: ok. even better.
  • [13:52] Valen Baxter: feel free to IM me with opinions or updated versions of those note cards. I'll take some time out this week to compile them as they are sent to me.
  • [13:53] Peer Infinity: hmm, do we really need separate rooms for each debate topic? maybe just "debate room 1" and "debate room 2" if there is more than one topic being discussed at a time
  • [13:53] Terence McKenna: How can I generate a slurl?
  • [13:53] Valen Baxter: that's what I was thinking.
  • [13:53] Morpheus Maximus: world>create landmark here then show on map and the copy to clipboard
  • [13:54] Peer Infinity: or just copy the sim name and the coordinates, in the same format as you saw in the other SLURL
  • [13:54] Terence McKenna: Thanks, I'll try that. Teleporting to uvvy now. Has been nice seeing you folks.
  • [13:54] Morpheus Maximus: byebye terence
  • [13:54] Peer Infinity: nice seeing you too. bye
  • [13:54] Valen Baxter: That's also why I was asking about the chat-bots earlier. I was hoping one could be placed in each room to be switched on/off during a debate, so everyone could read it, even if they came in days after it happened.
  • [13:56] Peer Infinity: maybe it would be best if someone just manually saved a log of important discussions. That way, they could just include the important parts, and cut out anything that shouldn't be logged (like email addresses)
  • [13:56] Valen Baxter: We'd need a secretary to manage it, but thet would work.
  • [13:57] Valen Baxter: you said a chat-script can send things to emial, right?
  • [13:57] Morpheus Maximus: yes
  • [13:57] Peer Infinity: yes, though I haven't checked the details about how that works
  • [13:57] Valen Baxter: I'll try to look into it and create a seperate Yahoo email address for the purpose.
  • [13:58] Morpheus Maximus: where will the logs be posted online (URL?)
  • [13:58] Peer Infinity: WTA Wiki Node
  • [13:58] Valen Baxter: most likely at Peer's wiki.
  • [13:58] Morpheus Maximus: oh yes thanks
  • [13:59] Valen Baxter: I also want to post a copy on a "bulletin board" object in the HQ.
  • [13:59] Peer Infinity: yes, good idea
  • [13:59] Valen Baxter: as I told Peer earlier, it seems people are more comfortable in 3d environments, and are willing to sit longer and do more in them than if they are faced with flat 2d text.
  • [14:00] Peer Infinity: heh, silly humans
  • [14:00] Valen Baxter: We'll certainly be linking to the wiki a lot, but I want to put a nice 3D face on it.
  • [14:00] Peer Infinity: sure, no problem
  • [14:00] Valen Baxter: Well, they're only humans for now. Not yet newmans.
  • [14:01] Peer Infinity: I thought the standard term was "transhumans"
  • [14:01] Cezka Straaf is Online
  • [14:01] Peer Infinity: not "newmans"
  • [14:01] Valen Baxter: it is. Though "post-human" is also popular. I just kind of like the sound of "New Man"
  • [14:01] Peer Infinity: yeah, it does sound nice
  • [14:02] Peer Infinity: though it will probably remind most people of the character "Newman" from Seinfeld
  • [14:02] Valen Baxter: I like to think more of the main character from the short lived series "Once and Again."
  • [14:02] Morpheus Maximus: Peer, can you remove my email address and RL name from the previous transcript if you are going to post it online. (you never know who will be googling you, like employers and so on)
  • [14:03] Peer Infinity: I haven't heard of that series
  • [14:03] Peer Infinity: right, I was planning to remove all of the email addresses before I posted the log
  • [14:03] Morpheus Maximus: thanks
  • [14:03] Peer Infinity: you're welcome
  • [14:03] Peer Infinity: I removed the email addresses from that other page too
  • [14:04] Valen Baxter: A real transhumanist piece there. A fat, out of shape workaholic slob falls in front of a subway train and "dies." Government wants to pull a "captain America" but needs a volunteer to test it on, so they resuscitate the almost dead puddle and rebuild him a-la "six million dollar man".
  • [14:05] Valen Baxter: the catch is that he's forbidden from interacting with his previous life, including wife and daughter.
  • [14:05] Valen Baxter: He was given a new name, Mr. Newman.
  • [14:05] Valen Baxter: Naturally, he breaks ranks as often as he can to try to see/stalk/protect his family.
  • [14:06] Valen Baxter: Really a good show.
  • [14:06] Peer Infinity: hmm, the Wikipedia entry describes something totally different
  • [14:07] Valen Baxter: really? It was years ago, so I may remember wrong, or someone could have screwed up the wiki (don't tell me it doesn't happen).
  • [14:07] Peer Infinity: ok
  • [14:09] Valen Baxter: It used to come on Sci Fi channel.
  • [14:09] Valen Baxter: Damn, maybe I got the name wrong.
  • [14:09] Peer Infinity: heh, here's another random idea: a list of recommended science fiction
  • [14:10] Peer Infinity: I recommend all of Greg Egan's stories. He has several stories posted for free online at http://www.gregegan.net/
  • [14:11] Peer Infinity: hmm, I should add that link to my profile, since my av is named after a character from one of his stories
  • [14:11] Morpheus Maximus: Currently I'm reading Kurzweil's "The Singularity Is Near"
  • [14:11] Peer Infinity: heh, I have an autographed copy of that book
  • [14:11] Morpheus Maximus: me too
  • [14:11] Peer Infinity: nice
  • [14:11] Morpheus Maximus: from Accelerating Change Conference
  • [14:12] Peer Infinity: I got mine as a gift from SIAI, for donating over $1000
  • [14:12] Valen Baxter: absolutely. Great idea. I think I might be able to dig some out too. I'll have to go to my "library" though (I have a LOT of books).
  • [14:12] Peer Infinity: heh
  • [14:12] Morpheus Maximus: :)
  • [14:12] Valen Baxter: question?
  • [14:13] Valen Baxter: Should we jump the shark and link to Dresden Codak, or would that be too much?
  • [14:14] Peer Infinity: I haven't heard of that either
  • [14:14] Morpheus Maximus: me neither
  • [14:15] Peer Infinity: maybe the list of recommended fiction should be sorted according to who recommends it, though we could also have a main list that everyone agrees on
  • [14:16] Morpheus Maximus: I remember seeing a list like that before somewhere online, but cant remember where
  • [14:16] Morpheus Maximus: (googling)
  • [14:17] Valen Baxter: webcomic. Very amusing. Transhumanist themes.
  • [14:18] Valen Baxter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfWPDzvWNds&mode=related&search=
  • [14:18] Valen Baxter: They're the ones who publicized this video.
  • [14:18] Valen Baxter: http://dresdencodak.com/index.html
  • [14:22] Valen Baxter: it's a bit trippy, I know. The author of the comic is a real transhumanism supporter, though. You should see her t-shirts.
  • [14:22] Peer Infinity: does anyone mind if I make minor corrections to people's grammar in the log, if I happen to notice any errors?
  • [14:23] Morpheus Maximus: no problem, but could you also remove my real life name (besides my email)?
  • [14:23] Morpheus Maximus: because my employer isnt very transhumanist
  • [14:24] Morpheus Maximus: he can google
  • [14:24] Peer Infinity: yeah, I should have a standard way of showing that something was removed from the log
  • [14:24] Peer Infinity: maybe just the word "Removed" in bold text
  • [14:24] Valen Baxter: please do. I try to spell check, but I always miss one or two errors. And if you could remove my email from the log as well, please?
  • [14:24] Morpheus Maximus: or **** or [removed]
  • [14:24] Peer Infinity: yeah
  • [14:29] Peer Infinity: # [13:15] Giulio Perhaps: sure you can need join the group uvvy island # [13:15] Giulio Perhaps: everyone in group has build perm
  • [14:31] Morpheus Maximus: I cant join that group by myself
  • [14:31] Peer Infinity: hmm, at the end of each log, I think I'll include a list of the main points that were made
  • [14:32] Valen Baxter: I've actually had a problem with some overly-zealous religious individuals become extremely provoked by the bare mention of transhumanist thinking. Including former employers. So, yeah, for now, I'd like to keep my real name hidden. I could probably forward you a pseudonym and cover-eamil address under that name.
  • [14:33] Morpheus Maximus: indeed. My SL-name can be used without problems though
  • [14:33] Peer Infinity: ok
  • [14:34] Peer Infinity: heh, I already have a separate email address for transhumanist stuff - the sl4observer account
  • [14:34] Morpheus Maximus: yes I need that too, I'll make one for that too
  • [14:40] Peer Infinity: hmm, should I remove the link to Jani's personal website?
  • [14:40] Morpheus Maximus: ask her?
  • [14:40] Peer Infinity: yeah, I will
  • [14:42] Peer Infinity: oh, by the way, the Wiki is deliberately set up to not be indexed by google
  • [14:52] Valen Baxter: well, I guess we're done here for the day.
  • [14:52] Morpheus Maximus: yes I think so too (busy in IMs)
  • [14:53] Valen Baxter: ok. Send me those cards with your ideas/input added and I'll compile them wednesday or thursday. I'll catch y'all later.
  • [14:54] Morpheus Maximus: okay, byebye!
  • [14:56] Morpheus Maximus: I'm being called / tp-ed so I have to go too. see you next time. byebye!

Main points:

  • decided to post logs of the meetings online
  • discussed the advantages of having a headquarters in SL, instead of just putting everything on a 2d website
  • brainstormed some ideas for things to add to the new WTA HQ:
    • Introduction foyer.
    • Links section.
    • a special "debate" section. A place to sit down and have a friendly arguement about the merits of various technologies or improvement "paths". cybernetics versus genetic engineering, wireless or plugs, etc.
    • Central meeting area for broad discussions/interaction.
    • Cultural room (Bar? Dance floor? Concert Hall? Theatre?) Eliezer Tando in Alien Nation has been meaning to do something similar for that group, and I thought we could do the same. I think it's important to build a sense of community. We could theme it after, as usual, what we anticipate culture to look like at a given future time period. Maybe even do "theme nights."
    • Class rooms/university? Again, i'm cribbing off of Alien Nation (another group I belong to). They will soon start teaching scripting classes, but I thought we could go one step further. Ask the qualified members of our community to teach little workshops about different technology/science fields, field questions, etc.
    • a list of recommended Science Fiction:

Important links:

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