Chat Logs/2009-05-03

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Chat Logs/2009-05-03

[9:56] Zobeid Zuma: Hii!
[9:57] Serendipity Seraph: hey
[9:57] Serendipity Seraph: hey Sing, Zoe
[9:57] Singularity Soler: hey there nice to see you again
[9:58] Serendipity Seraph: was off seeing my 4 mo old goddaughter last week. and at the end of a s-l-o-w line
[9:58] Serendipity Seraph: brb. getting my breakfast.
[10:04] Singularity Soler: welcome
[10:04] Arisia Vita: HI all...
[10:04] Zobeid Zuma: Hii!
[10:04] Singularity Soler: Hi Arisia
[10:04] Serendipity Seraph: arisia, hi!
[10:06] Calyps0 Janus: Good group showing! topic?
[10:06] Zobeid Zuma: Oh, this is interesting. . . It looks like they found patient zero for the swine flu.
[10:06] Calyps0 Janus: And it is?
[10:06] Zobeid Zuma: http://cuteoverload.com/2009/04/30/patient-zero/
[10:06] Singularity Soler: Arisia... i was taking about how we might be able to collect topics of interest to people... and perhaps formulate some meetings with specific agendas... as we discussed
[10:06] Serendipity Seraph: everyone wants to chat once a meeting beings. :)
[10:07] Calyps0 Janus: pt zero?
[10:07] Khannea Suntzu: Heya singey
[10:07] Calyps0 Janus: now that the humans have infected the Canadian swine
[10:07] Singularity Soler: hey Khannea
[10:07] Serendipity Seraph: agendas. that would be great but past experience seems to indicate this meeting usually goes back to a free for all.
[10:07] Serendipity Seraph: hey khannea
[10:08] Singularity Soler: perhaps that is true... i have been talking with some folks about setting up subgroups or working groups to explore various topics
[10:08] Singularity Soler: for example... AI/AGi is one topic we are working on... i haev been sharing my current research and those of my contemporaries there.
[10:08] Calyps0 Janus: What topics of interest have been identified already?
[10:09] Singularity Soler: I spoke with Arisia about having a place where we could post the topics of interest for further exploration.
[10:09] Singularity Soler: AI/AGi/ Cognitech is one...
[10:09] Singularity Soler: nanotech is another...
[10:09] Serendipity Seraph: UNreligion might be a separate meeting if there is enough interest
[10:09] Singularity Soler: i had suggested a board or place where everyone could put in their topics of interest
[10:10] Calyps0 Janus: can always group chairs by topic of interest & folks can move to the topic they want to discuss. flexible and fluid
[10:10] Singularity Soler: and we could all see the board... review the items... and perhaps have some people champoin meetings
[10:10] Serendipity Seraph: longevity / anti-aging is a topic near and dear to many of us
[10:10] Khannea Suntzu giggles
[10:10] Singularity Soler: this is all in the idea to increase the amount of traffic by appealing to the interests of people...
[10:10] Zobeid Zuma: Space access. :)
[10:10] Singularity Soler: rather than a free for all.
[10:11] Singularity Soler: Arisia... i see you have a post box here... but do we have a place where this list would be visible to all? and they could vote or add to it?
[10:11] Calyps0 Janus: just rearrange the seating based on the 20m chat distance
[10:11] Khannea Suntzu: Arisia, I will give you editiong rights over my objects
[10:11] Singularity Soler: or perhaps have meetings on dates other than this one...
[10:12] Calyps0 Janus: dilution
[10:12] Singularity Soler: dilution ?
[10:12] Serendipity Seraph: good idea. and/or additional targeted meetings/presentations in addition to a shorter sunday get together
[10:12] Singularity Soler: i thienk in fact its a concentration ... of interest
[10:12] Singularity Soler: and the sundays can be to review/update/manage the other activities
[10:13] Calyps0 Janus: so: pick a topic and let's see how long this group here stays OT
[10:13] Singularity Soler: unless some others here have ideas on how to increase interest and traffic?
[10:13] Calyps0 Janus: OnTopic!
[10:13] Khannea Suntzu: What might work is an exhibit. If people have any ideas for an object I can make in an afternoon, for an exhibit, send me a notecard, or an email
[10:13] Serendipity Seraph: or whatever. free social and whatever time is also good I think.
[10:13] Serendipity Seraph: unless?
[10:13] Singularity Soler: of course Seren.
[10:14] Singularity Soler: I know speaking for myself... i would enjoy exchaning ideas on specific topics with like minded folks sometimes as well... smile
[10:14] Serendipity Seraph: I think topical meetings are great. how will we advertise?
[10:14] Calyps0 Janus: So agi? Ben goetzel's announcement that pets in SL might be the nearest avenue for exploration
[10:14] Serendipity Seraph: notifications to group, email list for now enough right?
[10:15] Singularity Soler: i was orginally thinking that the list of topics gets nominations that lead to notifications...
[10:15] Calyps0 Janus: at which point an alt went out shopping for Gurgon Gumby's Delta dog
[10:15] Singularity Soler: nothing too fancy.. .we have had these kinds of meetings before
[10:15] Serendipity Seraph: would we like to formalize some a bit where there is primary "speaker" / orchestrator?
[10:16] Serendipity Seraph: like in AGI we could have various very topical presentations and focused discussions
[10:16] Singularity Soler: usually in an unconference format, someone agrees to manage or chair the meet, if not present to it
[10:16] Serendipity Seraph: hey Calyps0
[10:16] Singularity Soler: exactly Seren... just yester I was speaking with isenhand about Ben's work and Jeff Hawkin's as well
[10:16] Calyps0 Janus: I've Fallen...
[10:16] Calyps0 Janus: And i CAN'T GET UP!!!
[10:17] Serendipity Seraph: that is so cute. :-P
[10:17] Singularity Soler: and it looks like those who model the brain are going to have a much hareder time based on some new research...
[10:17] Singularity Soler: this might be interesting to some... and boring to others
[10:18] Serendipity Seraph: the one's bored don't come to that meeting but do to another they are interested in.
[10:18] Calyps0 Janus: y. Paul presented the Mouse Brain atlas project at the 2009 Neurology conference this past week
[10:18] Serendipity Seraph: no reason to make every meeting a common denominator, right?
[10:18] Serendipity Seraph: I proposed to keep at least a shorter general meeting at this time and maybe do more focused annouced ones at other times
[10:18] Singularity Soler: exactly
[10:19] Singularity Soler: i think it might help focus... and perhaps... we might actually get something productive out of that effort
[10:19] Calyps0 Janus: http://www.brain-map.org/
[10:20] Singularity Soler: did Paul's presentation talk about the molecular level of brain mapping Calypso?
[10:20] Serendipity Seraph: cool link, thanks!
[10:21] Calyps0 Janus: Do you know what the project is? very intense..slicing mouse brain.. first the male then the female?
[10:21] Zen Zeddmore: hey all
[10:21] Arisia Vita: Hi Zen
[10:22] Serendipity Seraph: excellent. haven't heard about this project but will read up.
[10:22] Singularity Soler: tasty
[10:23] Zen Zeddmore: what's on the menu?
[10:23] Singularity Soler: mouse brain
[10:24] Zen Zeddmore: seen some great reseach going on there
[10:24] Serendipity Seraph: talk about more focused meetings in specific areas
[10:24] Singularity Soler: i as mentioning that it looks like we are going to have to delve down into the protein level in order to map brain functionality
[10:25] Serendipity Seraph: possibly in addition to shorter Sun morning general meeting
[10:25] Zen Zeddmore: Roborat was pretty good, but i'm especially impressed by the rat neurons on a chip beeing used to controll a robot. (kevin warwichs labs)
[10:25] Singularity Soler: if the was an object in this place with the listing of other meetings that could be used as a focal point
[10:27] Zen Zeddmore: so the topic isn't mouse brains?
[10:27] Singularity Soler: Khannea... maybe a rotating sign... like the one you did with all the giants of transhumanism... and some lesser figures there as well..lol
[10:27] Singularity Soler: no zen.. .we talked about one topic aes being Ai/AGi/cognitech...
[10:28] Singularity Soler: I also know that zobeid had mentioned interest in lower the cost of space entry
[10:28] Serendipity Seraph: this is more general for now but may move there more strongly
[10:28] Singularity Soler: lowering*
[10:29] Singularity Soler: I would also like to talk about nanotech... and quantum tech... from my own perspective...
[10:29] Singularity Soler: i am sure we can quite quickly get a long list...
[10:29] Singularity Soler: these topics would be consolidated
[10:29] Zobeid Zuma: I think some people are putting too much stock in a space elevator.
[10:30] Khannea Suntzu: I only have a very strong prefernce (Very Strong Preference) towards stuff that is a bit nearer and more like topics we can actually talk about, in tangible terms.
[10:30] Singularity Soler: i read some interesting ideas about using underground nukes for lauaching large payloads into orbit
[10:30] Top Room Sensor v1.02: Extropia DaSilva has entered detection range of Top Room Sensor 1.
[10:30] Arisia Vita: Hi Exti!
[10:30] Khannea Suntzu: I dont wanna talk aout computronium unless you show me what you mean with a youtube Video
[10:30] Khannea Suntzu: TALK about the very devil
[10:30] Serendipity Seraph: would be very interested in both topics although there is much to say about each.
[10:30] Singularity Soler: well then Khannea... i think you would be a good contributor...
[10:30] Khannea Suntzu: Sorry trophy about yesterday, by PC hung tgotally stuck
[10:30] Extropia DaSilva: Hello everyone:)
[10:30] Khannea Suntzu: Took like 10 minutes to even restart properly
[10:30] Singularity Soler: hello Extropia... nice to see you dear
[10:30] Extropia DaSilva: No worries, Khannea sweets.
[10:30] Serendipity Seraph: I don't think we are close enough to space elevator to put that much stuck in it
[10:31] Serendipity Seraph: hey extie
[10:31] Zobeid Zuma: XT hii!
[10:31] Extropia DaSilva: Hello everyone.
[10:31] Serendipity Seraph: a talk about the theoretical physics based computational density limits would be interesting though
[10:31] Extropia DaSilva: So..I am late as usual. What are we discussing?
[10:31] Serendipity Seraph: or I would think so
[10:31] Khannea Suntzu: My interests are in terms of plastic visualisation, and here is why - because real people (pizza delivery people etc) dont get what the hell you are talking about un till they seen it in a game or a movie.
[10:31] Singularity Soler: speaking of space elevators... i have to say the one here... is very nice for having meeting in... i mentioned to a number of people that the upper platform has a big advantage for meeting on more... elevated topics... smile
[10:32] Zen Zeddmore: SE just represents the ideal of lower cost to orbit. That's the goal regardless how it is achieved
[10:32] Singularity Soler: so i would like to suggest that platform be a potential meeting site.
[10:32] Serendipity Seraph: more focused topic specific meetings perhaps in addition to shorter general meeting
[10:32] Zobeid Zuma: right, ZZ
[10:33] Serendipity Seraph: also building infrastructure in space with off-earth materials insead of hauling it up well
[10:33] Serendipity Seraph: teleoperated and real robotics
[10:33] Serendipity Seraph: near earth asteroid mining for metals, volatiles and much more
[10:33] Zen Zeddmore: If affordability becomes a meaningless concept because we acquire and acheive what we want via naotech replicators, then CTO will be meaningless as well.
[10:33] Singularity Soler: so do we have a volunteer to create a board or display of desired topics? and then something to match those with actualy meetings?
[10:34] Serendipity Seraph: no sense putting all eggs in one basket zz or keeping them there
[10:34] Singularity Soler: eggs in space
[10:36] Extropia DaSilva: Assemblers make affordability a meaningless concept? Why? Surely the blueprints required to build anything would have value? Do you guys know the work that would have to go in to specifying the position of each atom in a cubic micrometer?
[10:36] Singularity Soler: i mentioned the technohenge because i personally think seeing the earth float by allows people to have a more cosmic perspective... less petty and bound to earth conisderations.. but thats me... smile
[10:36] Singularity Soler: cool Seren
[10:37] Singularity Soler: ideally all the meeting places we decide on would be easily accessible via TP
[10:37] Singularity Soler: create traffic
[10:37] Zobeid Zuma: erg, I look away for a few minutes and miss people talking about my subject :p
[10:37] Zen Zeddmore: No Exti, how hard is it to scan something? How difficult for genetic algorithms to nvent things?
[10:37] Khannea Suntzu: Yes yes, I hope to lower it to water level
[10:37] Khannea Suntzu: It should be *imposing looking
[10:37] Extropia DaSilva: Oh the assembler/ dissasembler proposal?
[10:37] Serendipity Seraph: it is in build home right now and will be moved later to final TBD location
[10:39] Zen Zeddmore: How often are you going to be specifying atomic precision inventions anyway? Mostly you'll be reusing moleclar packages.
[10:39] Zobeid Zuma: I don't want to wait for nanotech replicators, we may want (or need) cheaper space travel before then.
[10:39] Singularity Soler: on the Se topic... you dont need atomic precision on the nanofibers... there is some documentation on that now...
[10:39] Singularity Soler: exactly Zen
[10:40] Extropia DaSilva: How much storage space would you need to specify the position of each atom or molecule in a macroscale product?
[10:40] Zen Zeddmore: and on the reuse note genetic algorithms will apply at that level too.
[10:40] Zobeid Zuma: Depends on the complexity of the product, Extie.
[10:41] Zen Zeddmore: redundancy can account for a hell of a lot of compression
[10:42] Extropia DaSilva: Right. Like we see with the brain versus the genome?
[10:42] Singularity Soler: so space elevators, low cost earth to space and space mining in one area of interest i see
[10:42] Khannea Suntzu smiles at extropia and likes it the virus is working in there.
[10:42] Serendipity Seraph: why would you ever do that extie
[10:42] Serendipity Seraph: ?
[10:42] Singularity Soler: Zobeid... do you think you would be interested enough to champion that cause?
[10:42] Zen Zeddmore: Well, you example is an example of sloppy expansion , but on that order more or less.
[10:42] Serendipity Seraph: there are repeating patterns over and over again
[10:43] Extropia DaSilva: Do what, Seren?
[10:43] Serendipity Seraph: build small units and combine them.
[10:43] Zobeid Zuma: Champion that cause? How do you mean?
[10:43] Serendipity Seraph: know the position of every atom and molecule in a macro sized product
[10:43] Singularity Soler: space elevators, low cost options, space mining.. privatation of space travel... its a big area... lots of room... pun intended
[10:44] Extropia DaSilva: *Smiles back at Khannea*
[10:44] Singularity Soler: after we put up ideas, we will need interested parties to both drive it an participate
[10:44] Zobeid Zuma: I've given some thought to what I think the main options are -- and what their advantages and disadvantages are likely to be.
[10:44] Zobeid Zuma: It would be interesting to see if others agree with my assessments. :)
[10:44] Singularity Soler: do you think you would want to present those to a group?
[10:45] Zobeid Zuma: Sure why not?
[10:45] Singularity Soler: and we might be able to invite those peole who work in that field in rl... as we have done for other topics
[10:46] Singularity Soler: does anyone else have an area of interest or a topic they are passionate about?
[10:46] Zobeid Zuma: That might be good. But sometimes they can't see the forest for the trees. :)
[10:47] Singularity Soler: well then Zobeid.. that is the point of the dialog.... i spoke with a person at Convergence.. who wanted to use Space Solar to create artificial oil.... interesting concept... but not how I would use the energy... lol
[10:47] Zen Zeddmore: I'm especially nterested in 3d printing. Es[ecially organs and limbs.
[10:47] Serendipity Seraph: so far we have agi, space access, nanotech, longevity, quantum tech
[10:47] Serendipity Seraph: ..
[10:47] Extropia DaSilva: Milestones. I think we should list near to midterm experiments etc that would act as proof of principle to certain technologies. Like um 'Methusula Mouse'.
[10:47] Khannea Suntzu: I am passionate about my concerns that in the next decades the emergence of new technologies might exclude large amnounts of people *COUGH*THIRDWORLD*COUGH* from basic necessities like income, loans, safety
[10:47] Khannea Suntzu: housing, food, medical care, water
[10:47] Serendipity Seraph: robotics in world and out should be on the list
[10:48] Serendipity Seraph: so socio-political-psychological path to future, k?
[10:48] Singularity Soler: Khannea.. as you know i too have a strong interest in the ethics, and requirements that these new technologies will impose on us all.. so that is related to your idea
[10:49] Singularity Soler: i often ponder what kind of human mind will be required in the singularity... of if they will exist
[10:49] Khannea Suntzu: I am not ethical at all. I am a nihilist and I suffer from anomia. But I am also very much jealous, envious and I hate being poor. So the undercurrent determines my focus points.
[10:50] Singularity Soler: so i think with this list we are forming... we need to have someone write them up to start.
[10:50] Khannea Suntzu: Singey, the problem is there are hundreds of different 1950s, if you like in 1900. Billions probably. A sneeze can make worldwar2 come, change and go.
[10:50] Khannea Suntzu: The future 50 years from now is even more uncertain
[10:51] Extropia DaSilva: I wonder if people will care if it exists or not? I can imagine the posthuman civilization using a decreasing fraction of its mental and physical capabilities to take care of humans, and doing so efficiently enough that they do not notice its presence.
[10:51] Serendipity Seraph: yes sing. this is a topic I have thought a lot about. and about how we will need to change to get to and enjoy the kind of future we dream of
[10:51] Khannea Suntzu: A singularity looks very likely, I agree. But it may be extremely bad as well as awfully strange
[10:51] Khannea Suntzu: Or
[10:52] Khannea Suntzu: Nothing might happen and we might be argueing oil prices and internet bandwidth in 2100
[10:52] Serendipity Seraph: funny, khannea, you have a lot of ethical concerns and interest from what I have seen
[10:52] Singularity Soler: you know... when i was at the Singularity Summit... i asked Marshall Brain if he had seen the movie Wall-E... he had not... amazing how the people who study this stuff, dont understand the implications of it on the human species
[10:52] Extropia DaSilva: People only really notice technology when it goes wrong. I would imagine that, by the time posthuman technology is widespread, it would be very rare for machines to malfunction.
[10:52] Khannea Suntzu: YES singet
[10:52] Khannea Suntzu: singey
[10:52] Singularity Soler: who here has seen that movie?
[10:52] Extropia DaSilva: Me. Twice.
[10:52] Khannea Suntzu: I did, online obviously
[10:53] Arisia Vita: Me
[10:53] Serendipity Seraph: I don't hold much to the butterfly theory. but I wonder sometimes how much agreement on the kind of world we want that we actually have
[10:53] Singularity Soler: any moral you could draw from it?
[10:53] Khannea Suntzu: I really ap[preciated the gag timing. Thats an artform.
[10:53] Zobeid Zuma: Err, I saw that movie, yeah.
[10:53] Serendipity Seraph: singularity in sense of > human intelligence is pretty much inevitable unless we really screw the pooch
[10:53] Serendipity Seraph: that is only thing I mean by the word
[10:53] Khannea Suntzu: Yes
[10:54] Extropia DaSilva: Yeah. Built-in obsolesence and the throw-away society makes future generations pay while we play.
[10:54] Zobeid Zuma: That's not what that word means. :/
[10:54] Khannea Suntzu: But I am a multiple world -ist
[10:54] Singularity Soler: I drew from it that if humans are to survive they need to have a fundemental purpose and strive to acheive something... otherwsie.. what is the point
[10:54] Serendipity Seraph: wall-e is not exactly important to AGI / robotics
[10:54] Zobeid Zuma: What do you mean, Extie?
[10:54] Khannea Suntzu: So I am concerned that the me that counts will end up in a good singularity as opposed to a skynet extermination/research camp
[10:55] Singularity Soler: no.. Seren... but it is an illustration of what happens in a superabundent state with humans who do not have any focus or direction... ie purpose
[10:55] Serendipity Seraph: politicians make future generations pay to make themselves and bankers rich while impoverishing us now.
[10:55] Zen Zeddmore: robots without direction or purpose won't fair any better.
[10:55] Extropia DaSilva: Well, in Wall-E the human race had exhausted the world's resources, turned it into products with little real purpose in the Maslow sense.
[10:56] Singularity Soler: ah... politicians... and other related topic... to ethics and purpose.
[10:56] Singularity Soler: no... in Wall-E all the people were fat slobs who could not even get out of a chair ... or think
[10:56] Singularity Soler: a life without purpose is no life at all
[10:56] Serendipity Seraph: interesting sing.. and I agree. so what is the future vision that drives us forward? Is it or can it be or does it need to be UNreligion?
[10:57] Khannea Suntzu: Robot finds a small plastic object with a chain attached in acres and acres of garbage. He presses it, after a perfectly timed pause. When the robot presses the small object you hear, in the distance the PLOIIOINK of a car alarm switching off.
[10:57] Zobeid Zuma: Right. . . But in reality you would expect the technology to make cleaning up the Earth relatively easy.
[10:57] Singularity Soler: well the details of the topic are to explore that... what is the purpose of a mind? I personally belive in life long learning and growth... others often talk about sitting around on virtual vacation... and doing nothing
[10:58] Singularity Soler: i am not speaking about the state of the Earth... it is incidental in this.. to be honest..
[10:58] Serendipity Seraph: wall-e had silly premises in many respects. cute movie though. horrible science natch
[10:58] Zobeid Zuma: I guess you might say we're incurring a debt that future generations will have to be -- but it should be a pretty small payment, by their standards.
[10:58] Singularity Soler: for more the more pressing question is.. what will be the destiny of humanity and each of us who will be living these extended lives
[10:59] Singularity Soler: and i use the movie to illustrate the stupidity and sloth of humans
[10:59] Serendipity Seraph: I think that both endless growth and doing nothing and everywhere in between will be explored myself
[10:59] Singularity Soler: its going to be hard to justify when the computers ouit think us all... especially if we let them..
[10:59] Khannea Suntzu: Funny, guess which movie I use a lot to quote examples - Brazil
[10:59] Serendipity Seraph: and possibly literally by myself..
[10:59] Singularity Soler: but that is of course... a more detailed topic of conversation
[11:00] Extropia DaSilva: Maybe, Zobeid. But, then again, I think we should be a little suspicious of this 'oh, the people of tomorrow with their technological deus ex machina will solve all the problems' type arguments.
[11:00] Zobeid Zuma: Logically, our "destiny" should be to establish an interstellar civilization, with the inhabitants of each star system pursuing their own chosen course of development. Thus, myriad possibilities will be explored.
[11:00] Khannea Suntzu: I might consider taking the last ten posts of Dale Carrico and hanging them as screen
[11:00] Serendipity Seraph: humans are nearly as stupid or slothful as the movie makes out imho
[11:00] Zobeid Zuma: Astronomy is destiny. :)
[11:00] Khannea Suntzu: captured objects along the walls here, to remind us.
[11:01] Singularity Soler: my concern is if the current human model is so fundementally flawed by virtue of where they came from.. that they will not be able to make the leap to an form of integration with technology
[11:01] Serendipity Seraph: er, not nearly I meant to say. pardon my "slip"
[11:01] Serendipity Seraph: :)
[11:01] Extropia DaSilva: Logically, interstellar civilizations do not happen. Or if they do, it makes such a small impression on the universe as to be completely undetectable to type zero civilizations.
[11:01] Singularity Soler: but i dont want to have a meeting on the topic here.. lol
[11:02] Singularity Soler: instead we were trying to collect the suggestions on what areas we will explore seperately.
[11:02] Zobeid Zuma: It has to happen, Extie. Our industrialized civilization as it currently exists is dynamically unstable. (or not "sustainable", as the green faction like to say)
[11:02] Extropia DaSilva: *Scowls at the very mention of the name...Dale Carrico*
[11:02] Singularity Soler: Zen suggested 3d printing.... Zobeid is on for getting to space inexpensively...
[11:03] Singularity Soler: Khannea wants to explore more of the social/pscho aspects...
[11:03] Zobeid Zuma: So in a relatively short time we're going to move to a much higher level of technology (such as the fabled "singularity") or collapse back to a bronze-age/stone-age setting.
[11:03] Khannea Suntzu pretends to pick at a small glass shard in her finger
[11:03] Singularity Soler: anyone else have a topic of interest?
[11:03] Serendipity Seraph: sing. that is a very interesing POV. you think humans cannot change with will to and tech to help?
[11:03] Khannea Suntzu: Virtual porn
[11:03] Extropia DaSilva: Well, if John Smart is correct and we dive into inner-space, it does NOT have to happen. All the evidence we have, also supports the idea that it does not happen.
[11:04] Singularity Soler: Nice to see Extropia is back to reading John's work... but my point still stands
[11:04] Zobeid Zuma: Extie, I'm not sure what logic says that interstellar civilizations do not happen? (As for what "impression" they make on the universe, that doesn't concern me much. Why should it?)
[11:04] Serendipity Seraph: interstellar civs of something non-biological can happen especially if super-luminal signalling is possible
[11:04] Singularity Soler: i am concerned that some concepts are hardwired inthe human mind ... and unless those are changed or removed... we are not going to be "worthy"
[11:04] Serendipity Seraph: mentioning Dale is like mentioning Nazis. :(
[11:04] Zobeid Zuma: I don't know what "inner-space" is, outside of spelunking. :p
[11:05] Khannea Suntzu chuckles
[11:05] Singularity Soler: i think the discussion on the inner space in a red herring here.
[11:05] Khannea Suntzu: They cure diseases with snake venom, singey
[11:05] Serendipity Seraph: John has been playing with and assuming that idea since we first talked about it (AFAIK) over a decade ago. it is a weird model
[11:06] Singularity Soler: the question remains.. with great power comes great responsiblity... so what does a near infinite power do with that? what are the obligations... to themselves to make the venture productive
[11:06] Serendipity Seraph: love the guy and his work but I think he is likely wrong on that one
[11:06] Extropia DaSilva: A) there is no evidence of any such interstellar civilizations. B) there is plenty of evidence of extinction-causing events from asteroid collisions, to gamma-ray bursts, to the eventual exaustion of the Sun's nuclear fuel. So, the simplest explanation for Fermi is this: the fate of technological civilizations is to go extinct.
[11:07] Serendipity Seraph: sing. I share your concern. we need to compare notes
[11:07] Zen Zeddmore: Seren, I don't think that will amount so much to unworthyness as unwillingness to participate. I encounter a frightening number of ludite types everywhere i turn.
[11:07] Singularity Soler: i agree Seren... so it looks like khannea you and I will be in a meeting to that effect.
[11:07] Zobeid Zuma: Oh, I don't think it's likely that there's an interstellar civilization in our galaxy currently. Which is a good thing. . . Would suck to find it already occupied.
[11:08] Singularity Soler: is unworthy different than unwilling Zen?
[11:08] Singularity Soler: if you are unwilling... you are then unworthy
[11:08] Serendipity Seraph: inner space is idea that computational density creates a physical/informational literally singularity like a black/white hole that seeds/creates a new universe
[11:08] Zobeid Zuma: We just have to beat the odds.
[11:08] Khannea Suntzu: Lol
[11:08] Khannea Suntzu: Hippies
[11:08] Serendipity Seraph: it is on the map as one theory of future dev
[11:09] Serendipity Seraph: hippies have nothing to do with the inner space thing or was that is reference to need for muan consciousness raising?
[11:09] Zobeid Zuma: Creates a new universe? That sounds like gibberish to me. Unless you mean a virtual universe like The Matrix. :/
[11:09] Zen Zeddmore: the difference is perhaps a matter of education.
[11:09] Singularity Soler: Zobeid.. do you want a link to John smart's work.. that might be a good start for the discussion?
[11:10] Zobeid Zuma: Nah, doesn't sound like it's worth bothering with.
[11:10] Singularity Soler: http://evodevouniverse.com/wiki/Main_Page
[11:10] Singularity Soler: just in case.. dont want to be part of the unwilling do you? smile
[11:10] Extropia DaSilva: Creating a new universe is not gibberish. It is theoretically plausible, assuming inflationary cosmology or Lee Smolin's black hole/Darwinian universe ideas are valid.
[11:10] Singularity Soler: in fact Lee Smoling talked about it before John
[11:11] Singularity Soler: Smolin*
[11:11] Zen Zeddmore: Has any here read John C Wright's "The Golden Age"?
[11:11] Singularity Soler: and the "natural evolution of multiverses"
[11:11] Serendipity Seraph: me. loved it!
[11:11] Khannea Suntzu: Hah thats ever so funny. I was discussing a setting based on Dungeons and Dragons, where the emergence of vancian magic and all stuff you see in a regular D&D campaign were events that were recent in nature, i.e. only a few centuries old, and magiciand and metaphysicists were discussing the steady emergence of new spells, new wizard features, increase spell tables, prestige classes, fields of magic, culminating in an explosive magical revolution, in some 50 years.
[11:12] Zen Zeddmore: Were you also disappointed with the other two books of the trilogy?
[11:12] Serendipity Seraph: I liked the last one. the middle one really dragged.
[11:12] Extropia DaSilva: Lee Smolin said black holes seed new universes. Seth Lloyd said black holes were the ultimate computer. John Smart's STEM compression theory says technologically-advanced civilizations seek to make the most powerful computers possible. So, you can kind of see how they might all fit together.
[11:13] Singularity Soler: i agree with that assessment
[11:13] Khannea Suntzu: Well, I am still with the berserkers. (wiggles fingers under mouth)
[11:13] Zobeid Zuma: That sounds like three layers of wild speculation glommed together into a kind of fantastical leap of wishful thinking, to me.
[11:13] Serendipity Seraph: nice summary extie
[11:13] Singularity Soler: as we discused before... my ideas are similar to John's in that intelligence is a counter force to entropy
[11:14] Zobeid Zuma: Entropy is information.
[11:14] Singularity Soler: how so?
[11:14] Zen Zeddmore: mentality (like evolution) occurs tangential to entropy.
[11:14] Zobeid Zuma: That's the definition. It's the same thing, in physics.
[11:15] Singularity Soler: inceasing entropy leads to chaos
[11:15] Khannea Suntzu: Hihihihi it might be so ironic, that as soon as we started intelligence amplifying, we started noticing a blueshift in the universe around us :)
[11:15] Zen Zeddmore: there is zero thermodynamic difference between setting this bit vrs setting that one.
[11:15] Zobeid Zuma: Increasing entropy is the engine that the universe runs on. It's a heat engine.
[11:15] Singularity Soler: intelligence... to use Jeff Hawkins term is order for a purpose.. that would seen to be 180 degrees away from entropy
[11:15] Khannea Suntzu: Kosmological lag
[11:16] Singularity Soler: and localized decreases in entropy of evidence of local intelligence...
[11:16] Singularity Soler: see Ray's work on that
[11:16] Zobeid Zuma: decreases in entropy? :/
[11:16] Singularity Soler: of course..
[11:16] Singularity Soler: local decreases
[11:16] Serendipity Seraph: is anyone elese experiencing major keyboard lag?
[11:16] Extropia DaSilva: um
[11:16] Zobeid Zuma: not I
[11:16] Extropia DaSilva: no
[11:17] Khannea Suntzu: Yes, must mean we are getting to smart for our own good.
[11:17] Singularity Soler: it seems apparent that a local intelligence, in ordering things around it... decreases the localized randomness or chaos
[11:17] Serendipity Seraph: better, secord SL session was culprit.
[11:17] Zobeid Zuma: No.
[11:18] Serendipity Seraph: too smart for own good?? how does that work?
[11:18] Zobeid Zuma: Intelligence produces information. It's just another thermodynamic process.
[11:18] Khannea Suntzu: Hihihihi it might be so ironic, that as soon as we started intelligence amplifying, we started noticing a blueshift in the universe around us :)
[11:18] Singularity Soler: look at your own body Zobeid... increasing complexity... less randomness
[11:18] Serendipity Seraph: less smart means we are at mercy of many existential risk
[11:18] Serendipity Seraph: though perhaps to dumb to know or care.
[11:18] Extropia DaSilva: Sorry to mention him again..But I argued that because we have finite material resources that puts pressure on industry to refine the manufacturing process, and THAT leads to molecular nanotechnology. But Dale said one did NOT entail the other. Am I wrong?
[11:19] Singularity Soler: no... intelligence produces structure and order... information is a byproduct
[11:19] Zobeid Zuma: You don't undestand entropy at all. . . . Let me propose an analogy.
[11:19] Singularity Soler: dont i? lol
[11:19] Serendipity Seraph: space based resources could take tha pressure off to some degree but would also drive toward robotics, AI and more efficient manufacturing
[11:19] Khannea Suntzu: Trophy, dale hates people who provide certainty and direction. Thats the overwhelming theme.
[11:19] Zobeid Zuma: Imagine you have a jar of sand. Half the sand -- in the bottom half of the jar -- is black, and the other half is white. That's minimum entropy.
[11:19] Zobeid Zuma: Pure order. But not very intersting.
[11:20] Serendipity Seraph: I don't care what Dale said on says.
[11:20] Serendipity Seraph: *or
[11:20] Extropia DaSilva: Entropy is a measure of the amount of disorder in a system. A deck of cards with each card in order has low entropy (high order) a deck of cards all shuffled up has high entropy (low order).
[11:20] Singularity Soler: only on a thermodynamic level Zobeid... i speak on entropy in a more expanded sense...
[11:21] Singularity Soler: so does Ray, and John and smolin...
[11:21] Zen Zeddmore: there is zero thermodynamic difference between copy ing this mutation vrs that one. there is zero thermodynamic difference between culling this mutation vrs that one. that's why evolution occurs despite entropy. Entopy doesn't enter into the equation.
[11:21] Zobeid Zuma: Shake the jar until it's totally mixed. . . Then you have maximum entropy. To define the contents of the jar would require a huge amount of information. But that's still not interesting or useful.
[11:21] Singularity Soler: evolution occurs because intelligence is a cosmic force
[11:21] Zobeid Zuma: Now start over with a fresh jar, and poke a stick in and swirl it -- but not too much. Then you can make interesting patterns.
[11:21] Singularity Soler: that is bound to attempt to order the universec
[11:21] Serendipity Seraph: entropy discussions never quite gel to something with meat to it for me..
[11:22] Extropia DaSilva: I think Dawkins would have heart failure if he heard you attributing 'cosmic intelligence' to evolution, Sing;)
[11:22] Zen Zeddmore: if it does at al it would be to increase complexity and efieciency. The lion spending the least energy is catching the slowest deer leaving the faster deer population to breed.
[11:22] Zobeid Zuma: Partial entrpy -- a fractal condition, somewhere between 0 and 1 -- is where you get true complexity.
[11:22] Singularity Soler: Dawkin has many heart attacks
[11:22] Khannea Suntzu: Hmmmm interesting, intelligence seems to be able to direct/observe the outcome in a quantum mechanical effect, or it is able to pincer every grain of sand back into a state of low entropy.
[11:22] Singularity Soler: i did not say "god" here.
[11:23] Zobeid Zuma: complexity is not the same an information, you see
[11:23] Singularity Soler: the idea is the intelligence will grow as a fundemental force over time in a specific universe... based on the values that universe started with
[11:23] Zen Zeddmore: there's no need for a cosmic force or intellect for evolution Sing.
[11:23] Singularity Soler: i spoke about this last week
[11:23] Extropia DaSilva: Yes. But the advantage evolution has, is its plausible account of how cummulative selection negates the need for ANY intelligence.
[11:23] Serendipity Seraph: a giant evolutionary algorithm is in a way intelligent
[11:24] Zobeid Zuma: intelligence has nothing to do with quantum effects
[11:24] Zobeid Zuma: That's Hollywood science. :p
[11:24] Serendipity Seraph: yes, sing. true enough. although may suffer selection bias
[11:24] Singularity Soler: i will rephrase... the creation of localized ordered effects is a result of this "force" of intelligence... it grows locally until a singularity... in some cases
[11:24] Extropia DaSilva: Well there is always Joel Morrison's argument of deep intelligence for evolution, which does have some merit.
[11:24] Singularity Soler: "natural selection" is merely a tool of that force
[11:24] Singularity Soler: a force to build, to order, to construct.. however you phrase it...
[11:25] Zobeid Zuma: You do realize that the transhuman "singularity" is only linked to an astronomical singularity by very loose metaphor, right? :)
[11:25] Singularity Soler: we call that intelligence for this purpose.. from the intelligence of a rock... to bacteria, to AI machines
[11:25] Serendipity Seraph: but GAs are a means to optimize for a set of criteria which is an exercise in intelligence. Does many it is driven by or started by an intelligence though
[11:25] Khannea Suntzu: I am a pelaganist. I believe all intelligence, unless subsumed by another, will evolve into singularity.
[11:26] Khannea Suntzu looks with concern at singularity
[11:26] Extropia DaSilva: I would say that gravity, evolution, technology and (maybe) posthumansism are definite chapters in the story of pattern-building in the universe.
[11:26] Serendipity Seraph: although some future AGI might well do such things as build worlds and universes and tweak the GAs involved no and again. Why not?
[11:26] Zobeid Zuma: I think you give intelligence (and indeed life) too big a role in the universe, Extie.
[11:27] Zen Zeddmore: self replication IS an big thing Zobeid
[11:27] Zobeid Zuma: Terribly important from our standpoint, of course. Not such a big deal to The Universe, if were in fact capable of contemplating such things. :)
[11:27] Singularity Soler: as John mentions... i think that there is a human centric viewpoint that in the long term is incorrect... we are merely a point in the development (evolution if you will) of the intelligece in this part of the galaxy...
[11:27] Serendipity Seraph: how would one really weigh what is an isn't "too big a role" though?
[11:27] Singularity Soler: and not a very good one at that
[11:28] Serendipity Seraph: we are actually likely good enough for self-transcendence. that is all that is needed
[11:28] Extropia DaSilva: I do not mean one ALWAYS follows from the next. I mean that if an alien scientist were to visit our solar system, it would recognise that there are complex stuctures on Earth that cannot be explained except in light of evolution and technology.
[11:28] Zen Zeddmore: exponential growth is BIG BIG not just BIG
[11:29] Singularity Soler: Zobeid.. .as I said earlier... i suggest you consider that the starting amount and rate of growth of intelligence on a universal level, is akin to other cosmic constants.... and each universe has a different value for that...
[11:29] Serendipity Seraph: depends on the exponent and the coefficient. :-P
[11:29] Extropia DaSilva: Never accept the deal to give two grains of rice for the first square on a chess board, 4 on the next...
[11:29] Zobeid Zuma: Anyhow. . . if we don't all get sucked into some kind of techno-informatic black hole and are then spewed into a new/alternate universe. . . Then I think interestellar civilization is the next logical goal and outcome.
[11:29] Singularity Soler: so the "importance " of intelligence depends on the universe you use as a reference point
[11:30] Zen Zeddmore: Seren you're clutching at mere rates and not grasping the nature of exponentials
[11:30] Serendipity Seraph: I think that AGI and MNT are the two primary immediate goals
[11:30] Singularity Soler: Seren... to you point about trancendence... self or otherwise... that is one of my fundemental concerns as wel
[11:30] Zobeid Zuma: I want to play Civilization for real. :)
[11:30] Singularity Soler: Zen... i think the concensus is that in order to have "singularity" exponetial growth is a given
[11:31] Extropia DaSilva: Well, actually renewable energy is. But MNT would certainly help us achieve renewable energy. See Drexler's ideas on solar power for example.
[11:32] Serendipity Seraph: you are right extie that renewable energy is immediate biggest challenge to human civ. Or at least very plentiful cheap energy
[11:33] Zobeid Zuma: Still got fingers crossed for Polywell here.
[11:33] Singularity Soler: last week i was speaking about how the rate of growth in intelligence is limited by energy
[11:33] Extropia DaSilva: Apart from zero-point energy, I would say nuclear fusion is the energy source most befitting a type-1 civilization.
[11:33] Zen Zeddmore: we should be using nuclear energy like NASA does not like the power companies do.
[11:34] Zen Zeddmore: even our rad waste would be usefull then
[11:36] Extropia DaSilva: Radioactive waste requires us to develop signs whose warnings will be readable and understandable in the longterm. I mean, to civilizations tens of thousands of years into the future.
[11:36] Khannea Suntzu: I am willing to bet that the worst of radioactives will be worth a fortune in a century
[11:36] Singularity Soler: thats funny Extropia
[11:36] Extropia DaSilva: Already are. I bet plutonium is way expensive.
[11:36] Zen Zeddmore: or just disposing of it when were done using it
[11:37] Zobeid Zuma: The most radioactive isotopes are, of course, the ones that decay the soonest.
[11:37] Khannea Suntzu: I am talking contaminated diapers too
[11:37] Serendipity Seraph: polywell is interesting but very underfunded and then by military. BTW, am worried that a lot of very cool tech including enhancement and cyber tech is all military or DHS.
[11:38] Serendipity Seraph: radioactive waste is future fuel perhaps
[11:38] Zobeid Zuma: If you really want to get rid of radioactive waste (rather then reprocess it), then drop it into a subduction zone.
[11:38] Serendipity Seraph: toss the diapers into the fusion plasma. :)
[11:39] Zobeid Zuma: Or put it under the Antarctic ice sheet. (But the shipping could get expensive.)
[11:39] Khannea Suntzu: NO, this time there is a problem with your KIDS
[11:39] Khannea Suntzu: Marty, would you sit still for a second?
[11:40] Extropia DaSilva: Yes, Seren. After all, if we do not demolish the planets to build an MB, the Sun is going to exhaust its fuel and recycle its material in nebulae.
[11:40] Zobeid Zuma: MB?
[11:40] Extropia DaSilva: Matrioska Brain. My preferred explanation for fermi.
[11:41] Zobeid Zuma: Why are we worried about the sun burning out? That's a long way off, and there are plenty of others available. :)
[11:41] Extropia DaSilva: Who said anyone was worried? I am just stating facts.
[11:42] Singularity Soler: that depends on if i use this one for my own purposes Zobeid...
[11:42] Zobeid Zuma: I just find it annoying that people keep bringing up the sun burning out.
[11:42] Serendipity Seraph: MB is compatible with John's notion. He also things most intelligences will not want to be far from dense information flow. dunno. I could see wanting some space.. literally. specially if it became too regulated toward alternative wasy
[11:42] Serendipity Seraph: *ways
[11:43] Extropia DaSilva: Remember, we are supposed to be the first immortals. We DO need to worry that the stelliferous era will not last forever. What are we to do when ALL elements in our universe have been transformed into the most stable form and there ARE no stars? What then?
[11:43] Zobeid Zuma: Haha!
[11:43] Zobeid Zuma: That's funny, Extie. :D
[11:43] Serendipity Seraph: not immediate enough for you Zoe?
[11:43] Singularity Soler: long before then Extropia,. we will have created our own universes
[11:43] Zobeid Zuma: I think Serendipity raised a good point.
[11:44] Zen Zeddmore: Exti, we'll drive off that bridge when we get to it.
[11:44] Serendipity Seraph: I will wait until I have brains enough to consider the problem profitably, extie
[11:44] Zobeid Zuma: Sometimes you don't want to see the smoke from your neighbor's campfire.
[11:44] Singularity Soler: especially if you set the neighbors house on fire
[11:44] Zobeid Zuma: Establishing an intersellar civilization will provide a much needed element of diversification.
[11:45] Khannea Suntzu: One alien astrophycisist to another - look, there that yellow star, that planet. see those spiky bits around the equator? Thats a rare thing, doesnt happen very often, its a sign the star will be enveloped in this curious nerar black globular halo, and then nothing happens. I have a list of those, a real anomaly. No good explanation why it happens.
[11:45] Singularity Soler: i am not sure that interstellar is going to happen Zobeid
[11:45] Zobeid Zuma: The sheer distance between stars means you can't have any effective kind of "galactic empire".
[11:45] Zobeid Zuma: What's to keep it from happening?
[11:46] Extropia DaSilva: As well as John Smart/Seth Lloyd's black hole computer theory, there is also the idea that far-future civilizations will rely on black holes as the last possible energy source left in the universe before the endless dark ages and the end of any possible life in our universe.
[11:46] Serendipity Seraph: khannea, I like that! :)
[11:47] Singularity Soler: the desire to have it happen... or even the need, Zobeid... again.. .read Johns work... give it some thought... i can give you a PDF if you like
[11:47] Zobeid Zuma: So it's possible for star systems to share information and communicate with one another -- but not to boss one another around. That seems like a pleasant result, to me.
[11:47] Serendipity Seraph: zoe, depends on whether instaneous signalling is possible after all
[11:47] Singularity Soler: but information speed increases with smaller dimensions... not larger ones
[11:48] Zobeid Zuma: You can't have instantaneous signalling without bringing in time travel and the whole mess that implies. I rather hope it doesn't come to that.
[11:48] Singularity Soler: even if we have instaneous communications... processing speed is a function of time... the shorter the time dimension.. the better
[11:48] Extropia DaSilva: Someone noted that, since most of the energy of the star would be harnessed for running computations, an MB would look exceedingly dim. So dim, you only infer its presence from gravitational effects. It would be...dark matter.
[11:48] Zobeid Zuma: I don't want my past rewritten. :(
[11:48] Serendipity Seraph: agree on need for diversity. but I also think we need to grow to embrace that regardless of how compact or spread out we are
[11:48] Zen Zeddmore: Einstein's equations don't prohibit faster than light. Merely ramping up to it.
[11:48] Singularity Soler: actually you can zobeid... time travel is not required for that... only quantum nonlocality
[11:48] Zobeid Zuma: It does result in time travel. There's no way around it.
[11:49] Singularity Soler: relativity is not the model to use here
[11:49] Serendipity Seraph: zoe, at the quantum level it may already have "come to that" . we don't know the macro level limits
[11:49] Singularity Soler: you need to examine quantum mechanics here
[11:49] Arisia Vita: Time for me to go tend to some rl things. Great seeing you all, and next time I'll try not to hog the conversation. :)
[11:49] Zobeid Zuma: I don't think you can wish away relativity. This is the geometry of our spacetime continuum I'm talking about. :/
[11:49] Arisia Vita: Keep me in the loop....
[11:49] Extropia DaSilva: Did Einstein predict Tachyons?
[11:49] Top Room Sensor v1.02: Arisia Vita no longer detected in range of Top Room Sensor 1.
[11:50] Zen Zeddmore: gerps
[11:50] Singularity Soler: yes... Zobeid... and spacetime is not relent at the quantum level.. google quantum nonlocality
[11:50] Singularity Soler: relevant
[11:50] Serendipity Seraph: unless your processing spreads time-wise or is a massive quantum computer. <- wild ass toying around
[11:50] Zobeid Zuma: I don't think you are understanding me.
[11:51] Serendipity Seraph: I will log this. bye arisia. stay cosy.
[11:51] Singularity Soler: i am sure i am... i dont think you understand quantum mechanics
[11:51] Zobeid Zuma: If event A causes event B at some distance away, and A and B are "simultaneous" in some reference frame. . . Then you can also find a reference frame where B preceeds A.
[11:52] Khannea Suntzu: Ghoulio is in a rebellious phase trophy, being spitefully anti-SL
[11:52] Singularity Soler: now you see why einstein did not like quantum mechanics
[11:53] Zobeid Zuma: And just to make it fun, you can send another "instantaenous" message in a different reference frame to prevent event A from occurring, and you are into paradox land.
[11:53] Extropia DaSilva: Bah. It will be some time before I am running on a laptop mighty enough to run the kind of online worlds HE recommends these days.
[11:53] Singularity Soler: please explain how two quantum entangled particle can share an instantaneous change in state... reagardless of distance
[11:54] Zobeid Zuma: Well. . . If they are entangled, then they don't *change* state simultaneously, they just both trace their state back to the point when they got entangled.
[11:54] Serendipity Seraph: can run opensim islands but it is hard to tune to be much fun. peaceful self contained place for experiments though.
[11:54] Extropia DaSilva: Giulio feels that it is only a matter of time before a genuine 'Sl killer' appears and this place suffers a mass exodus and extinction.
[11:55] Zobeid Zuma: Oh, I hope he's right!
[11:55] Singularity Soler: they do change state ... when one particle is observed... dechoherence
[11:55] Zobeid Zuma: That doesn't change the state, that *sets* it.
[11:55] Khannea Suntzu: Ghoulio wants change in SL, and he is fed up with inadequacies in the SL platform. And for clarcity sake he bets on Blue Mars, which will have for more controllability and revenue potential for him.
[11:55] Extropia DaSilva: Me too. I just wish he would stop enthusing about places like sciencesim or entropia which, by all accounts, suck ten times more than he would have you believe.
[11:56] Serendipity Seraph: but in meantime this is where most of "It" is. All they lessons of scale and the really interesting sociology and enough stuff to make it easy to put together extraordinary things and the freedom to do so is here.
[11:56] Extropia DaSilva: I will try out Blue Mars, when I can afford my own Blue gene/L or whatever is good enough to run it.
[11:56] Zobeid Zuma: Let me know when I can run Blue Mars on my Mac. :/
[11:56] Serendipity Seraph: OpenSim has one or two of those. most, much less.
[11:57] Khannea Suntzu: Love if I were you I'd wait it out - there are a load of wow killers coming out - a GTA MMORPG, star wars, star trek, a world of darkness vampire MMORPG
[11:57] Singularity Soler: you can run Blue mars quite well on a Mac.. the new dual cpu Xeon 5500's
[11:57] Khannea Suntzu: Very soon there will be no shortage of time to waste
[11:57] Zobeid Zuma: I thought it was for Vista only.
[11:57] Khannea Suntzu: Hey hey terry
[11:57] Terence McKenna: Hi, I missed it. Again.
[11:58] Serendipity Seraph: fashionably late, are we? :)
[11:58] Zen Zeddmore: Hi Terence
[11:58] Terence McKenna: I had Internet outage for two days, and only came home right now.
[11:58] Zobeid Zuma: From what I'm reading, Blue Mars sounds more commercial. . .
[11:58] Singularity Soler: ah.. true.. .mac os is a challenge now.. but the credit should be given to apple for bumping up the hardware
[11:58] Khannea Suntzu: No, excuses, excuses, he got the kids locked into their respective coffins and now he needs to feel non guilty doing nothing drinking beer, so he logs onto SL.
[11:58] Zobeid Zuma: Which is the opposite direction from where I'd want to go. :/
[11:59] Singularity Soler: hey Tererence..nice to see you
[11:59] Extropia DaSilva: Oh it is OK. My primary is going to get me this lovely gaming laptop. That is, once she has the £5000+ to pay for it. Good news is, Moores Law predicts that by the time she can afford it, she will get one twice as powerful in all respects as the one she set her sights on:)
[11:59] Terence McKenna: Got me there.
[11:59] Terence McKenna: AFK
[11:59] Zobeid Zuma: Moore's Law is running out of steam.
[11:59] Khannea Suntzu: Lol
[11:59] Extropia DaSilva: It should keep going until the 2020s, though.
[12:00] Khannea Suntzu: A 5000 pound plaptop? What, it's got electrolytes???
[12:00] Singularity Soler: not for at least 10 years according to Justin Rattner
[12:00] Serendipity Seraph: internet outage really gives the scary lie to many of our dreams. :(
[12:00] Extropia DaSilva: Does this multiple core architecture fit into the Moore's Law paradigm?
[12:00] Zobeid Zuma: BTW, I can run SL on my Dell Mini-9.
[12:00] Zobeid Zuma: It's pretty crummy but does sort of basically work. :)
[12:01] Extropia DaSilva: AFK a sec..
[12:02] Serendipity Seraph: zoe, there are more technologies coming out of the labs than are necessary to keep moore's law going. I expect the doubling time to drop quickly within next 5 years
[12:02] Zobeid Zuma reads, "Blue Mars’s robust content management system gives IP holders the control they need to protect their users and their brands from inappropriate content." That sentence seems designed to make me run away from it as fast as I can.
[12:02] Khannea Suntzu: Zobeid, thats the "antiflyingpenisclause"
[12:03] Serendipity Seraph: yep. and you have to beg for permission to create anything there. they so don't get it.
[12:03] Khannea Suntzu: If it catches on, three months before YOU can design content, deliver it to some company holding a licence for AvatarReality and they sell it for you
[12:03] Serendipity Seraph: same with entropia
[12:03] Zobeid Zuma: Wasn't "There" sort of like that?
[12:04] Khannea Suntzu: The market always a way given sufficient demand
[12:04] Zobeid Zuma: Didn't set the world on fire, that I know of.
[12:04] Zobeid Zuma: Not that I've ever tried There. I wanted to, early on, but they never made a Mac client. :p
[12:04] Khannea Suntzu: Ahh, its all trivialities. There is like five major editable engines coming out beyond Crysis that can be adopted easily into social MMOs
[12:05] Khannea Suntzu: This shit is here to stay, and in ten years there will be addons and plugins to make features interoperable.
[12:05] Singularity Soler: Zobeid.. dont you use Parallels to run Windows?
[12:05] Khannea Suntzu: "shhheeet the gravity here feels so different in BlueMars than in Life2.0"
[12:06] Zobeid Zuma: No, I don't run Windows. I don't want to run Windows.
[12:07] Singularity Soler: ah... i see
[12:07] Serendipity Seraph: most virtual worlds do not work in virtualized windoze
[12:07] Serendipity Seraph: I have tried
[12:07] Khannea Suntzu: "well its better than the damn Yak virtial world controls... Yak, the 3D version of Longhorn... the MMORPG where flying penises look like clippies"
[12:07] Khannea Suntzu: Hey
[12:07] Zobeid Zuma: We've been at this for A While. I'm getting tired.
[12:07] Singularity Soler: i have separate machines for mac/windows/linux, et all

Chat Logs/2009-05-03

From Order of Cosmic Engineers

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